if you have any questions about saving seeds of a particular plant let me know
(this is for non-hybrid, as hybrids will rarely come true in the next generation)

TOMATOES
try to get ripe tomatoes from 2-3 plants (for a little genetic diversity)
remove pulp and seeds into a container (you will discover the best way to get more seeds and less pulp into the container)
if they are really juicy, i sieve off the excess liquid,and put the seeds back into the container
add a little water and stir
let stand for 4-5 days (i stir them every once in awhile)
they will smell (so if you can put in a warm place where the smell won't bother you)
the viable seeds will sink to the bottom
slowly pour off the liquid, any pulp and seeds not viable will pour off too
i pour until the main mass off seeds at the bottom reaches the point of being poured off
then i rinse them in the container, this will dislodge some more pulp and non-viable seeds
(also will give you a better view, as the first pour is pretty murky)
wait for a little bit and observe the seeds, then pour off the liquid again
depending on the situation i rinse a couple of more times
i don't really concern myself if i lose some seeds that pour off, viability is more important
your seeds are now ready to dry
i can't stand putting them on newspaper or papertowel (the seeds stick to the fibers)
get some unbleached coffee filters, and pull them apart on the seam
place your seeds on the filter (i have the filters on dinner plates)
take the back of a spoon and spread the seeds around, doesn't have to be perfect, just so they are not layered
after drying for a week, place in a bag/envelope/jar, in a cool dry place
(i keep my seeds in a sealed plastic bucket, with some tea bags filled with powdered milk, in the cold storage)

forgot to add
tomato seed viability - 4 years

Jalapenos and other peppers
simply scoop out the seeds and allow to dry for 2 weeks
(before planting out, i throw them in a little container of water, and any that float toss)
seed viability - 2 years (i will test this, as 3-4 years properly stored, seems more rational)

Melons, squash, pumpkins, cucumbers
scoop put seeds and pulp into a container, and allow to ferment like tomatoes
stirring occasionally to stop mold from forming
in a couple of days the viable seeds will sink
pour off the pulp and non-viable seeds
rinse well and dry for 2 weeks
alternately(not for cukes): you can scoop out the pulp and seeds, rinse well, and remove any flat seeds, generally they are non-viable
and dry for 2 weeks
seed viability - 5 years

Question for ya?
When planting off season using a greenhouse can you expect summer crops to grow and deliver crops or is that an uphill battle.
I'm talking just a greenhouse in mild winter temp conditions. No artificial heat but never freezing conditions either.
Thanks for the seed savings tips.

Hello Kodiak,
it is definitely something you should try
try as many types and varieties you can to start with
here is some suggestions you might consider
heat sinks - these moderate the nighttime temps
the quickest and most efficient is water
let's say the size of your green house is 8'x10'
then 2 - 50 gal drums would suffice (if you think this is too much sqfootage to sacrifice, try 1 to start with)

at night,if you can, drape some sort of blanket across the greenhouse, just above your highest plant
a good way to accomplish this: have the blanket along the whole northside, at ground level
then at night pull it up and across, you can have enough material to cover the north top and south side
a couple of galvanized wires strung from the header of one side to the header of the other side will do (unless you are tall)
(we have flexible foam-type insulation that is about 1/4" thick, white on one side and silver on the other, and is rated R12
it is meant for on top of a sub-floor, or on the outside sheathing, but it is good for this application)

your summer crops maybe stunted and slower than summer-time
but if you can keep death at bay, you should find some that will reward you

Offgrid, help the people out - why do you use Powdered Milk in tea bags?

Hello Skinner,
powdered milk is a cheap desiccant
we have tea bags that are meant to be filled with loose tea
so i put a couple of teaspoons of powdered milk in, tape it off so the milk doesn't spill out
place some at different levels
any moisture that is trapped, or manages to get in there, will be absorbed by the milk

Great stuff!
In artificial heat conditions is there a common approach that's better/most cost effective?
I like the water drum approach but don't have tons of room {8x16}
I'm thinking the solar blanket like you mentioned sounds reasonable to try too.
Thanks for the tips. Very much appreciated!

Kodiak,
try the blanket at night approach, with a min/max thermometer
the soil itself is a heat sink (think of a swimming pool after dusk)
check your thermometer later in the morning for the min temp

the water drums are the most cost effective and efficient

is your greenhouse on a north-south orientation
with the door on the west side, footpath up the middle and beds running along the north-south and east sides?
if so, you could place the water drum right at the eastern edge of the foot path and only lose that 3 sqft of eastern bed

i'll go through some of my resources here and get back later

eta: a good idea is to dig a trench around the greenhouse and place some 1.5" rigid styrofoam in the trench
if you go down about a foot and a half or so,
that should be enough to separate the outside ground from sucking the heat out of your greenhouse soil
you can also add a wall of rigid insulation (1 foot high) all around the bottom of the green house, during the cooler months
depending on what you have as a path now, making the path thick with brick or stone will also act as a heat sink

Great stuff, Thanks so much.
I'm North/South with the doors to the North.
We get some strong winds out of the South and I feared the GreenHouse filling up like a parachute and taking off on me if I did anything but protect the opening to the North.
All sides except the doors to the north are surrounded by raised beds forming a 3' walkway around the exterior. The floor and walkway leading to the doors are decomposed granite.
I've used the Greenhouse for spring plantings but have not tried a winter garden yet and I felt this was a good year to try.
I'll do the blanket and I'll squeeze in some water drums and see how it goes. We generally have mild/wet winters and no frost except a run in April/early May.
I'm always excited somehow about Spring and getting back to the garden and want to give it a go this Fall/Winter too.
I've seen the pictures of your place and I am truly jealous.
Thanks again for the help.

Elliot Coleman has a few books out that I found helpfull getting started greenhouse gardening.

[url]Year-Round Vegetable Production Using Deep Organic Techniques and Unheated Greenhouses
http://www.fourseasonfarm.com/books/index.html[/url]

I set water filled milk jugs thoughout the covered rows as heat sinks.

Kodiak, got a good site for making thermal-curtains
http://manytracks.com/Homesteading/winquilt.htm

Much appreciated.
These will work perfect.

Tomato seed saving cont'd

how many fruit to save seeds from?
-depends on how many seeds you want (the larger fruit, 1 tomato will give you enough personal seed for years)
-if you plan on saving to sell, or for family and friends, then you will quickly discover what each variety's seed yield will be
-if you are planning to save seeds for trade later; then every 2 years i would save seeds and toss the others

here is our procedure that allows us to save all our end of season seeds
-remove seeds and pulp into their respective containers (i do let some seed/pulp remain for flavor)
-cut large fruit into quarters or so, and place in stock pot
-cook on med/low until soft and some of the moisture has boiled off
-put through tomato press
-you now have a really good flavor (mix of tomato varieties) sauce base to can up
alternately
-rough dice tomatoes for salsa (we don't skin ours for salsa)
since neither of these need seeds/pulp for them, you are not wasting the bulk of the fruit for seed

which fruit/plant to save from
-if you get fruit, you can save seed from it
-chances are any problem in the fruit will be related to soil/weather problems
-i had some issue with one row, where potatoes had grown 2 years prior, no mature fruit so, no seed was saved from here
-simply look for good producers and decent fruit, but even that is not set in stone
-the fruit that did really well this year, didn't do so well last year, and vice-versa
so, there are many variables every year, that is why a good variety (esp. heirlooms) is smart
-some for us have been consistent producers, so we grow more of these, hence more seed saved

(there are ways to create your own variety, i'm going to try blackplum and mr.stripey this year
if it works, i'll call it 'mr.blackplumpey')

Ok stupid question probably but, I have a Ripe Pumpkin sitting in the garage after about a month
of being frozen,Semi frozen and I apply the one of the procedures above will the seeds be viable
Just now seperated the seeds from the pumpkin, it was semi frozen.

Hello Milo,
once you get the seeds that are plump and you feel are the good viable ones,
and they have been dried for 2 weeks
check the germination rate
here is the simple process i use for determining germination:
place 10 seeds on a moist paper towel
try to get a good mix of seeds (different size, shape, color)
roll up the paper towel and put into a ziplock bag
close the bag, and place in a warm, dark location? (or simply put the bag in a paper bag)
check every day and check for germination (pumpkin seeds should germinate in 4-5 days at about 70F)
if you are comfortable that it was around 70F, after 7 days you could call it quits
(unless of course they all germinated before the 7 days)
then it is a simple % germination - 2 seeds ungerminated = 80% rate - 3 seeds ungerminated = 70% etc.
if you have lots of seeds, you can increase the amount you test, to give you a truer picture
also be wary of what did not germinate - were they seeds that you considered borderline or suspect anyway
in which case you just toss those seeds and don't include them in the germination rate
and then remove similar seeds form your main stash, and toss them out

take care

Thanks I'll try it

Hey offgrid,
Can I use one of those simple food dehydrators to dry out the fruit/vegetable/flower and then just rake up the seeds?

For instance, corn can be left on the stalk to dry into seed, so my thinking says that I can just speed up the process. Am I wrong? Does the item have to age or something first?

Ancona,
so long as the fruit is mature, the seeds should be as ready as they will get
the danger will be in cooking the embryo
but you can test it out, using different variables to see if it works well
sorry, i can't be of more help, i've never come across this

looking through an old book for this, i stumbled upon another way to test germination
this one is better imo, if you have the space
as the above method may lead to some seeds not rolling out in place (sticking to the paper towel)
this isn't a problem if you are just using one type of fairly similar seeds
but for anything above that, try this:
place a few layers of paper towel on a cookie sheet
label (if needed) and moisten
place seeds in their proper labeled location
if they don't need light to germinate, cover with moist paper towels
place cookie pan into a plastic bag to retain humidity
check the seeds daily, and moisten paper towels if needed (they say for up to 3 weeks, but for me that is too long)

Dried the pumpkin seeds offgrid, I was impatient only 4 days, thy felt dry enough.
wet paper towel, ziplock bag, dark closet, temp not to good, guessing 45 to 60 degrees
inside the closet, heaters on 77 still cool inside.
were in a cold spell as every one knows. been around 9-16 degrees plus windchill lately
gonna be a scorching 37 today and tomorrow.

anyway been about 5 days for germination so far and 50% germination rate
looks like 2 more may pop so I'm gonna leave them there another 2 days.
probably would have been better if I would have waited prescribed time & temp was warmer

I'm on the verge of becoming a seedsman.
Thats like being a Knight, or Duke or something Isn't it.

If your still out there somewhere offgrid thanks for the way to test my seeds
as for the rest of you take a gander at my latest test only 2 out of 10 so far
but that means I could be another Johnny Appleseed (store bought Fuji apples)
I'm so proud of myself.

Where the heck is Offgrid?
Going to be needing a whole lot of hand holding to get this gardening thing down right.
Maybe that's why he's not checking in.
As far as your seed popping prowess Milo, What can I say? Incredible

I think he went incognito for a while, maybe has stuff going on.
would be nice if he returned.

Offgrid's not checking in that much - Busy from what he tells me. I can reach him if you need to really find him.

All good, As long as he's OK.
Remind him that he has helped create gardening monsters out here in cyber space and he's going to have to reel us in before we start growing mushrooms in the basement.